Re-opening a hot topic

[Mkeef]

Hey all,

I've been reading several old threads over the last few weeks trying to find the best information on how to add on to a contract. Right now is all about research as we won't really be financially ready to add on to our contract for another year or so. So ya right now I'm trying to best understand the pros and cons of different options and understand how the programs work and this site has an entensive wealth of knowledge and experience!! We spoke with a cast member when we were in Aulani and she was great but of course they try to only push disney direct purchases so it would be nice to get an unbiased view.

A little about us!! My wife and I got married last year and while on our honeymoon bought into DVC. We bought on the cruise and paid 116/pt for 220 points at BLT as there was a bunch of great incentives. Since we live in western Canada its difficult for us to go to WDW world each year so we plan to go every two years. Also, we typically go for minimum of 1 week otherwise its not cost effective with flights and travel time. We love the 1 and 2 bedrooms as we don't mind cooking some meals and love having a washer and dryer. With that banking points looks like it will work out pretty good for us(I've planned out many scenarios!). We are expecting our first child in a month and look forward to many disney trips. As I plan out scenarios for our growing family I found that there a certain situations where we fall short on points (even with one time use points). THese scenarios come up when we would go at christmas time or possibly stay for longer stays or better views. since it sounds like standard views usually book up pretty quick. So having the extra few points would add great flexibility.

So now to my questions. I definetely see that resale is a way cheaper option. We aren't overly concerned with using the points for anything but DVC resorts as I see how insufficient that is (plus we would rather spend our time in Disney.) We would only look at purchasing between 25-50 points. Is it worth buying such a small contract and having a different home resort as it won't give us much in the way of advanced booking as we want to have our points combined so we can try and book all our vacations as one long one. On the other side BLT is so expensive right now and not much in the way of small contract resales (of course that may change when we are ready to buy). Plus we have an October UY and that seems to be the least common. Having an uncommon UY makes me think that buying through disney is best because I was told they will always match your main UY with each add on, but more expensive.

How long have people had to wait to buy points through a sold out DVC resort on an add on contract since disney has to buy back points?

Another concern for us is the buying into a resort with a different expirey than BLT (2060) A 25-50 point contract isn't too flexible on its own so if we bought in to OKW for example and it expires in 2042 we lose out on 18 years of use. However, if we wait and buy into a brand new DVC resort and the expirey is much later then again we lose out on several years when our BLT contract expires (Our kids will have it by then ). On the other side while BLT is selling at $155 point does past trends show that it will go down? (For example have any of the original DVC resorts dropped in price after they peaked? or have they always risen?)

One thing we did consider is buying into VGF when it gets released as we plan on taking another cruise in 2014 and we got such a great deal on BLT on our last cruise and word on the street the cruise is the best place to buy direct from disney (plus we had a great experience when we bought on the cruise). This is assuming they will be selling VGF points at that time.

What kind of incentives do they typically have for new resorts? Or are the specific times when they offer great incentives?

I know that was a mouthfull and thanks for reading it!! Hoping to spark some discussion and get some feedback!!! So many things to consider but I am glad we are in the game!

[wdrl]

Welcome to the Forum!

I'll give you my perspectives on some of the points you raise.

Historically, small 25-50 point deeds were difficult to find on the resale market. When OKW sales started in 1991, the minimum buy was 230 points and for many years DVD required at least 160 points for the initial buy. However, within the last 3-5 years, smaller point deeds have become far more common. Not only have existing members added on to the membership by buying small deeds, but DVD was permitting first time buyers to purchase points in multiple deeds, such as 60-50-50 or 80-80. As a result, there are far more small 50 point deeds hitting the resale market today than 10 years ago. And most of these are for BLT or AKV.

Small deeds still get a premium on the resale market, so be prepared to pay a little more per point than you would for a 200 point deed.

You are right: October is the least common UY at BLT. If you buy direct from Disney, you'll get the same UY and you'll be able to add on a little as 25 points. If you buy resale, you can buy any UY you want. However, DVD will not let you add the new points to your existing account unless it has the same UY and is titled exactly the same as your existing master contract. if the new deed doesn't have the same UY, then you'll get a new member account. Managing two accounts with different UYs is not impossible, but it requires much more awareness of banking deadlines and other issues.

I'm very hesitant to buy a small 25-50 point deed at a new resort. Even with banking and borrowing, such a small number of points would let you book only 2-4 nights in a one-bedroom at the 11-month mark every 2 or 3 years. Thus, if you plan on going to WDW for at least a week at a time, then you'll have to do split stays between your two home resorts. Of course, you can combine your points at the 7-month mark and book one longer stay. But, if you plan on visiting during peak DVC times like Christmas, you might find that you can't add on to a reservation you booked at 11 months because all the available dates are gone at the 7 month mark.

By the way: Split stays can be a bit of a challenge. My wife and I have done several split stays and we like being able to try out different resorts, or be nearer to certain Parks during parts of our stays. However, its just the two of us and we almost always are moving from studio to studio. I think a split stay for a family with little kids is much more of a challenge. Packing up and moving food, clothes, kids, etc, then perhaps being 'homeless' until 4:00 PM waiting for your new villa to become available, can use up a lot of your precious vacation time.

How long does it take for the 'right' deed to appear on the resale market? Well, its sort of like Murphy's Law: As long as you don't want to buy, you'll see several appealing deeds. But as soon as you have the money and are ready to buy, you won't see another good contract for ages! A friend was in the market for a 50 point deed from BWV but she never found one that size. Instead, she ended up buying an 80 point BWV. You'll just have to be patient -- a good deed will eventually come along, but it might take 3-6 months.

I suggest you subscribe to the email lists for at least one or two of the big DVC resale brokers. I get emails from the TimeShare Store about 2 or 3 times a week and they show all the new deeds coming onto the market.

To me, the different expiration dates of the DVC resorts are a non-issue. I'm 60, so I'll expire long before my AKV deeds (2057) or BLT deeds (2060) expire! But even if I was 25 years old, I'm not sure whether I'd worry about an event that won't happen until 2042 or later. Between now and then, so many things can happen: My vacation habits might change, Disney may offer extensions, I might sell my BLT points and buy a brand new DVC resort that opens in 2025, etc.

Incentives on direct buys vary, and its very difficult to predict what DVD may do with VGF. When Aulani sales began in July 2010, our Guide said that the price would never go lower than the initial price of $114/point with incentives. I think DVD has sort of adhered to that, but it has offered Visa gift cards and different incentives, so I'm not sure if today's buyers might not be getting a little bit better deal than the original buyers. When we bought in May 2009, SSR would have cost us $102/point after incentives for 160 points. By March 2010, DVD was selling SSR for a flat price of $99 a point.

Hope this answers some of your questions. Have fun enjoying your DVC!!

[denlo]

My dh, wdrl said pretty much everything I can think of in answering your questions. Although I love BLT, it is very expensive to stay there and I expect VGF will be similar if not higher. We purchased some points at AKV and often do split stays to lengthen our stays or try other resorts. You can use the points from another resort combined with your original purchase, but only at the 7 month mark. If the contracts are not the same member number--different UYs or titled differently, then the only way to combine the points is via a transfer of points which are limited to one per year, in or out.

Resale BLT points are selling in mid to upper $90 range. So already the price is lower than what you paid for it. The oldest resort, OKW is still selling at a price higher than many members originally paid for it. But all the other resorts are starting to decline--BCV, BWV and VWL, for example are $20 lower or more than they were two years ago.

I don't think you can look at your DVC contracts as investments. I think the days are gone that people buy a new DVC contract today and in 15 years sell it for the same price they paid for it or sell it for a higher amount. It's not like a home where you need to sell it for what you purchased it in order to buy a bigger house. DVC is just a way to save money on hotel rooms at a place we all enjoy visiting. I like to think of it as a prepaid plan for a pretty nice hotel room.

What we often do is make a reservation at our home resort at the 11 month mark for whatever number of days our points will cover at the BLT (or AKV since we have two resorts) and then at the 7 month mark try to switch to another resort. This next trip we did that, we had a 6 night standard view studio booked at BLT and switched to SSR for 7 nights in a studio. BTW, many members stay in studios while their children are small to stretch their points.

[TimK]

I have a 40-point contract at a single resort and always say that it was my biggest mistake as an owner. When we bought it, I think it cost us 110 points for 5 nights in a One Bedroom at that resort for the dates we had in mind. The 40pt contract was enough for that stay once every 3 years.

But things change.

The point charts were modified. The time of year we end up visiting has fluctuated. And given transportation costs, we lean more toward stays of at least 6-7 nights these days.

Cruise incentives vary dramatically so it's hard to recommend you put all of your eggs in that basket. We've taken three cruises in the last 4 years or so. The first time pricing was identical to non-cruise rates but if you bought a high number of points (something like 250+) they offered a free RCI trade as an added incentive.

Second the cruise had extra discounts for an Aulani purchase / add-on but not for BLT.

This last time (two weeks ago) they were giving a $500 stateroom credit for an add-on of 160 or more as the cruise incentive.

There's just no way of knowing if there will even be extra discounts or whether you'll be able to take advantage of them. If you're only looking to add 25-50 and the incentives start at 160-250, you're out of luck (or spending a lot more money than you intended. )

Unless you are a fan of split stays (i.e. part of your trip at one resort then move to a second resort), I wouldn't consider adding so few points at a second location. My experience says that it's more trouble than it's worth.

You already own 220 direct points and said you have no intentions of using points outside of the DVC resorts. So I would think resale is viable. You'll just have to see what sort of deal you can get resale. Like Wil and Denise said, the per-point price on a small resale tends to be higher than larger contracts. Resale closing costs will probably run you more than a direct add-on on a per-point basis, too.

Good luck, and welcome to the boards!

[Mkeef]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice!! It's nice to have such a valuable resource at my fingertips

I'd love to be able to just buy into a brand new 160+ point contract....maybe one day....My eyes get pretty big when I think of all the vacations we can plan!!

Cruise incentives vary dramatically so it's hard to recommend you put all of your eggs in that basket. We've taken three cruises in the last 4 years or so. The first time pricing was identical to non-cruise rates but if you bought a high number of points (something like 250+) they offered a free RCI trade as an added incentive.

Second the cruise had extra discounts for an Aulani purchase / add-on but not for BLT.

This last time (two weeks ago) they were giving a $500 stateroom credit for an add-on of 160 or more as the cruise incentive.

There's just no way of knowing if there will even be extra discounts or whether you'll be able to take advantage of them. If you're only looking to add 25-50 and the incentives start at 160-250, you're out of luck (or spending a lot more money than you intended. )

We must have been pretty spoiled on our cruise. BLT had been selling for 140/point. DCL offered it at 130/pt then we got an additional 14/pt off for buying 220. That brought it down to 114/pt. THey also offered a $500 onboard credit but the biggest kicker was that they offered all of 2010 points without having to pay 2010 AD/MF so thats what allowed us to book our trip to hawaii . ALso, at the time, the canadian dollar was above the american dollar so we saved about another $1000 on exchange rates!!!