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Thread: DVCNews Debates: Perks Minimum

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by denlo View Post
    But Disney still makes a lot of money on DVC guests that have purchased resale. I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.
    "Disney" does, but remember the business unit known as Disney Vacation Club--and Ken Potrock--aren't judged based upon the number of Annual Passes or Turkey Legs sold. It's their job to sell as many points as possible.

    Also, I personally believe that restrictions like this are the primary reason we currently have perks like the Epcot lounge, Moonlight Magic, 20% merchandise, 80+ WDW restaurants, etc.

    While I agree that perk restrictions are moderately reducing demand for resale points (thus values), I also believe that the impressive member perks has simultaneously boosted the value of the entire program. No you can't buy a resale contract and attend Moonlight Magic, but you can add a resale to existing points or buy 75 direct after the resale. The more members there are...the more resorts there are...the more people will be shopping for resales.

    2017 was the first full year with these perk restrictions. It was also the first year with a dozen Moonlight Magic dates, Epcot lounge remained, impressive new AP/ticket bonus, massive resort renovations, etc. Direct sales were the best in 5+ years and the resale market continued to climb higher. Coincidence? Maybe. But it's also possible that DVC's aggressive perk spending caused an increase in public perception which simultaneously benefitted both themselves (higher sales) and owners seeking to unload points.
    Last edited by TimK; 02-12-2018 at 01:27 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizDays View Post
    I'm not convinced Disney loses money EVERY time someone buys resale.
    They sell a product. If someone buys that product from a “competitor” then they lose that sale. Disney as a company will still make money off resalers but DVC doesn’t and I doubt they will keep the CEO of DVC around if it’s not making money just because the parks are.

    I’m not debating whether resale vs direct is the right way to go. Everyone has their reasons and none are wrong. The signs show Disney recognizes the value in the resale market or they would have crushed it years ago.
    WDW - POFQ, CS, ASM, BLT, OKW, VWL, AKL - (9 trips)
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  3. #13
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    We only were interested in DVC because we know we enjoy the bubble. I honestly didn't think the DVC could 'beat' the 35% discounted hotel rooms we obtained from our AP but when they did my husband said yes. We haven't ever regretted buying direct but we happened to hit a 'good' time for us because the buy-in limit had been lowered and the incentive were pretty incredible, along with the reduced cost of the AP ticket perk.

    Have to admit I was one of the uninformed on resale , although I do not know if my husband would buy resale because when we discovered the process he didn't feel it was trustworthy. The argument that everyone was doing resale so it must be trustworthy did seem to carry much weight. I have to admit the direct buy process is so easy and instantly gratifying that it would be hard to use the resale market now.

    As far as the 'limits', when when we bought in '08 we bought the minimum amount of points we could purchase and then like 2 years later the limits were reduced and reduced again so now their back into their up-swing.

    I often feel the division of DVC and WDW isn't very clear. I have a sibling who hammered home that a timeshare is just a bed and she was very disgusted with the whole process because she owns something she can't get rid of unless she just walks away from it. So the only value for the resale market for us is that what we bought has a seemingly residual worth. I say seemingly we're not selling and the kids already said their taking over the points when we pass.

    Janet & Dan


  4. #14
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    Default Re: DVCNews Debates: Perks Minimum

    We are from Canada and live in one of the provinces in which DVC is not licensed to do business. Since we were not in WDW when the time was right for us to purchase, the resale market was our easiest option to purchase. Otherwise, we would have been required to travel to another province or into the U.S. in order to complete a direct purchase. It's disappointing to see further restrictions on the perks but I think everyone knows that perks can be cancelled at any time. When we purchased our contract, we were only after the room cost savings and weren't even aware that there were member perks, although we appreciate every one that we are able to take advantage of.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkeef View Post
    They sell a product. If someone buys that product from a “competitor” then they lose that sale.
    More importantly, they lost a buyer.

    DVC already sold the original points. The business model has no real expectation to continually resell the same points.

    Similar to a finite number of points to sell, there is also a finite number of buyers. DVC spends a small fortune on advertising to get people interested and excited about buying the product, only to lose the BUYER to the resale market.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNWVIKING 2.0 View Post
    The end game for DVC is to continue dinging resale buyers. They will never make it go away, but a certain percentage will decide to go Direct and that's a big win for DVC.
    The thing of it is, the resale value is an important part of why they can charge so much.

    I would never have bought into a timeshare at all without it having a robust resale market. I've heard far, far too many horror stories of timeshare owners who wanted out for whatever reason, but there was no way they could resell at any price, much less one that meant they didn't lose too much money. The fact that there was an out if my wife and I decided that it wasn't working for us, or that our needs had changed, was utterly essential to us.

    (As it turns out, I could resell now at a 50% markup above what I paid just a few years ago. But even if it hadn't gone up, I'd be content had it stayed level.)
    [WDW visits: DxL 1/98, VWL 1/03, WL 6/03, VWL 1/08, BWV 1/13, BCV 1/16, POFQ 4/17, BCV 1/19, BCV 4/19]
    [DL visits: 7/90, 11/93, 11/94, 11/95, 6/96, 11/96, 11/97, 11/99, 12/00, 8/01, 1/06, 2/08, 2/12, 6/14, VGC 7/16, DLH/VGC 1/17]
    [Family: me46, wife46, daughter19, son17, son14]
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazrak View Post
    The thing of it is, the resale value is an important part of why they can charge so much.
    I think Direct Sale pricing is driving Resale prices up, not the other way around. If anything, the cheap resale market would discourage raising prices by DVC.

    Personally, I think we over estimate the number of people that research a DVC purchase to the "nth" degree. They just throw the money down and ask how fast can I get my membership card. I've come to the conclusion there is a vast number of people in this country with levels of discretionary income that I'll never comprehend and they will throw it at the Mouse like drunken sailors.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNWVIKING 2.0 View Post
    Personally, I think we over estimate the number of people that research a DVC purchase to the "nth" degree. They just throw the money down and ask how fast can I get my membership card. I've come to the conclusion there is a vast number of people in this country with levels of discretionary income that I'll never comprehend and they will throw it at the Mouse like drunken sailors.
    That I will certainly agree with. We overestimate the number of people who research a WDW trip at all. I've had friends say things like, "Hey, I'm thinking about going to Disney[1] in early August[2], can anybody sell[3] me some DVC points?" And that one's more put-together than most.

    1: WDW is just "Disney". There is no Disney beyond WDW, apparently.
    2: They usually ask this around late June. First-week-of-August availability is, shall we say, limited by then.
    3: They mean rent.
    [WDW visits: DxL 1/98, VWL 1/03, WL 6/03, VWL 1/08, BWV 1/13, BCV 1/16, POFQ 4/17, BCV 1/19, BCV 4/19]
    [DL visits: 7/90, 11/93, 11/94, 11/95, 6/96, 11/96, 11/97, 11/99, 12/00, 8/01, 1/06, 2/08, 2/12, 6/14, VGC 7/16, DLH/VGC 1/17]
    [Family: me46, wife46, daughter19, son17, son14]
    [Races: 2016 WDW 10k, 2017 SW Light Side Rebel Challenge, 2017 SW Dark Side Half, 2019 SW Rival Run Challenge]

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNWVIKING 2.0 View Post
    Personally, I think we over estimate the number of people that research a DVC purchase to the "nth" degree.
    I know anecdotes aren't data, but this is me! Being in Northern California, it never dawned on me to join DVC when I saw the kiosks and advertising stands in Downtown Disney or in Disneyland or California Adventure. I didn't think of joining when I got married either. It wasn't until my wife and I went to Disney World with our then 9 month old son in tow to meet up with her family that we joined DVC. We did no research other than the sales pitch. But it made sense for us then and I'm glad we did it.

    The hook for us wasn't the resale market at all. Since we are older parents (I had my son when I was 44), leaving our contract to our son until I will/would have turned 92 was the biggest perk we looked at.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred M View Post
    I know anecdotes aren't data, but this is me! Being in Northern California, it never dawned on me to join DVC when I saw the kiosks and advertising stands in Downtown Disney or in Disneyland or California Adventure. I didn't think of joining when I got married either. It wasn't until my wife and I went to Disney World with our then 9 month old son in tow to meet up with her family that we joined DVC. We did no research other than the sales pitch. But it made sense for us then and I'm glad we did it.

    The hook for us wasn't the resale market at all. Since we are older parents (I had my son when I was 44), leaving our contract to our son until I will/would have turned 92 was the biggest perk we looked at.
    We have similar West Coast issues, so while it was tempting to buy, it wasn't a priority due to the additional cost of airfare. We rented points from friends several times, so we knew how it worked and what a deal it was, but we couldn't really afford to buy until fairly recently.

    Since we bought resale, we probably aren't going to be able to pass anything on (we'll be about 70 when our contract expires) but we are planning on the idea that we can bring our grandkids there. And, when it expires...we'll see what the situation is then.
    [WDW visits: DxL 1/98, VWL 1/03, WL 6/03, VWL 1/08, BWV 1/13, BCV 1/16, POFQ 4/17, BCV 1/19, BCV 4/19]
    [DL visits: 7/90, 11/93, 11/94, 11/95, 6/96, 11/96, 11/97, 11/99, 12/00, 8/01, 1/06, 2/08, 2/12, 6/14, VGC 7/16, DLH/VGC 1/17]
    [Family: me46, wife46, daughter19, son17, son14]
    [Races: 2016 WDW 10k, 2017 SW Light Side Rebel Challenge, 2017 SW Dark Side Half, 2019 SW Rival Run Challenge]

  11. Likes Fred M liked this post

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